Talk:Demonstrative

Kaplan?

David Kaplan's essay "Demonstratives" has been cited more than 1,700 times (see google scholar); it is a staple in the philosophy of language. This probably ought to be reflected in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.106.230.219 (talk) 00:05, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Europe 2-way distinction

Most European languages only make a two-way distinction between demonstratives, ...

Well at least Spanish makes a three-way distinction, and I have a feeling Catalan and Portuguese may do as well.

Spanish:
Adjectives:
this: este esta estos estas
that: ese esa esos esas
that over there: aquel aquella aquellos aquellas

Pronouns:
this one: éste ésta éstos éstas
that one: ése ésa ésos ésas
that one over there: aquél aquélla aquéllos aquéllas
— Hippietrail 14:05, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

more than 3-way distiction

Are there any languages that make a more than 3-way distinction? If so, what is the maximum amount of distinctions found so far? --JorisvS 11:47, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I seem to recall seeing that some Inuit languages have up to 20-way distinctions. I'll try to find a reference. --Makerowner 14:51, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

According to QI (not the most reliable source, I know), some Inuit languages have 32 demonstrative pronouns. 78.16.184.191 (talk) 17:03, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

English grammar

I got rid of the template because this article is not just English and therefore it should not be on here.

Yonder

Who decided that yon/yonder are no longer valid English? I was under the impression that yonder was a demonstrative as well. "That one over there, far away, but still in view" is what yonder means. So, wouldn't it be a third demonstrative to go with this and that? Just asking. Peter1968 (talk) 14:28, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Fersher. I don't see why not, and I've altered the article to reflect that. It's definitely out of style in most parts, but it's in the Oxford Dictionary under "archaic or dialect", and not under "Middle English." Otherwise I suppose it would be in some etymological subsection, and not given a proper entry. In any case, native English speakers will all understand it, and even use it occasionally (though perhaps with some sarcasm). --Heyitspeter (talk) 07:19, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Yonder's use as a distal demonstrative is definitely preserved in Southern American English, as the article there asserts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.223.116.200 (talk) 18:26, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

So the Oxford Dictionary has yon/yonder under "archaic or dialect". So what? That doesn't mean they have died out in British English - unless you say that all dialect has died out. The people living in London and the South East might never use them, but many dialects in the North of England do - both yon and yonder - in their traditional sense. I used them myself as a lad, and although I generally no longer do (I moved South), I still hear them used when I go back North.

Unfinished?

What does "In the scandinavic Languages are only one pronoun" mean? __meco (talk) 10:30, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Lamb of God

"This is the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world." I don't think the word that in the sentence is a demonstrative. A demonstrative would be "that Lamb of God takes away the sin of the world". Disagreements? DJ Clayworth (talk) 20:12, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Babble?

Pardon me, but this passage has got little to do with pronouns: (qv.) "Use of a demonstrative ("spacial adjective") to describe a child, instead of a name, suggests distancing, thus indicating the speaker may be lying."

"The speaker may be lying"? This sounds an awful lot like psycho-babble to me. It is perfectly possible to lie using other pronouns, and also tell the truth using a demonstrative.

--Sparviere (talk) 00:24, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Offensive examples

Do the examples in the upper right text box really represent the best possible examples? Would someone propose better content?PalMD (talk) 04:32, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

I dont believe it would. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.110.147.184 (talk) 19:14, 22 October 2010 (UTC) shit men this gonna be bad

Tenses with "dead" languages

Not sure what the convention is regarding languages like Latin, but in the sentence "Latin had several sets of demonstratives, including hic, haec, hoc; ille, illa, illud; and iste, ista, istud (note that Latin has not only number, but also three grammatical genders)." there is a muddle. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Grcaldwell (talk • contribs) 09:57, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Medial in Japanese?

The article claims, without citing a source, that Japanese has a proximal/medial/distal trichotomy. I'd like to see an authoritative source for this claim. I've no doubt that ko/so/a has been so represented in texts of Japanese as a foreign language or in grammar books put out by hacks, but I have trouble believing that it has been stated in a well-informed analysis of the language. -- Hoary (talk) 22:54, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

demonstrative

'demonstratives are deictic' is like saying 'transfers are metaphoric'. (Pamour (talk) 09:47, 6 September 2012 (UTC))

Medial in Bengali?

In this article, it is written that Bengali has a proximal/medial/distal. As a Bengali, I disagree that as there is no medial thing. Nayeem the D-kgo (talk) 12:52, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

The use of pure demonstrative pronouns in different languages

I have the impression that languages with a remarkable nominal inflection like Classical Latin or my native German (or even Dutch in a dwindling amount) tend to use demonstrative pronouns where less inflectional languages like English (or to a lesser degree, as I assume, French) might probably employ simple personal pronouns (or repeated nominal phrases). They do specify the referent or its importance and perception in the context of the communication. ("Meine Mutter hat uns einen Abschiedsbrief geschrieben. – Was? Darf ich den mal sehen?", in de:Tatort: Lakritz, 39:24 to 39:29. This dialogue excerpt, I would translate the following way: "My mother wrote a farewell letter/suicide note to us/for us. – What? May I see it [please/shortly/once/sometime]?". Another example shall be "Er will uns're Seelen. Aber die bekommt er heute nicht." (Santiano Graubart, album Wenn die Kälte kommt) which I would translate as follows: "He wants (demands?) our souls. But he won't get them today." (or with higher lexical loyalty: "But these (those?), he doesn't get today.") In the latter example, I would assume that it is connected to the topicalization. With regard to my first example and many other usages that I have not mentioned yet, I suggest that the usages of single demonstrative pronouns in German (instead of personal pronouns) may possibly be summarized as follows: 1. Similar reasons like those that tend do induce the use of demonstrative determiners with nouns (emphasis of (now) known identity ("exactly this one!"); restrictive attributes ("die aus Polen", "jene, die du liebst"); showing distance or unacquaintedness, expressing a negative attitude, contrasting expectations or surprise, referring to something that is new in the current discourse) 2. Avoiding confusion ( a. Distinction between 3rd person plural and 2nd person polite form, since the Modern German polite form of the second person is the personal pronoun (and reflective pronoun and Verb form) of the grammatical third person plural, demonstrative pronouns in the plural (especially the genitive form "deren") may replace ambiguous personal pronouns even if a personal pronoun would be preferred for a singular referent (example: "Es war deren Krieg, nicht Ihrer." (It was their war, not yours.), in "Spock unter Verdacht", the German synchronized version of Star Trek TOS "Balance of Terror") b. Single demonstrative pronouns usually don't refer to the subject (or agent?) of the preceding clause (or current clause, but that is only important for genitive attributes/possessive determiners (and possibly for prepositional phrases that are used as attributes of a noun or pronoun), for the reflexive sense of dative or accusative complements would be indicated by the reflexive pronoun) and may therefore be used to emphasise the constituent that is identical with a non-subject of the preceding clause, especially if it governs the same pronoun forms (gender and number) as that subject (agent). It will probably be used if the roles are changed in comparison to the preceding sentence or if the object of the second sentence is topicalized. And in my opinion, a demonstrative pronoun must be used for a non-subject of the preceding if both referents govern the same inflectional forms and the roles are changed. (Lea fragt Laura. Diese traut ihr aber nicht. vs. Dieser traut sie aber nicht /Sie traut ihr aber nicht.)

Is that a topic of linguistics? Universal-Interessierter^de (talk (de)) 15:45, 7 August 2024 (UTC)